Superman VS Goku ( Detective Comics VS Dragon Ball )
2 beloved god-like protagonists and considered to be some of the most powerful physical characters in not just their respective universes (Dragon Ball and Detective Comics) , but all of fictional history. "Last" survivors of an alien race (The Saiyans and the Kryptonians) and were born to notable and respected fathers (Bardock and Jor-El) of said race, but are both also on the opposite spectrum of classes from each other ( The low-class Saiyan warrior Bardock, and the high-class scientist Jor-El ). Both would be sent from their dying planet (Planet Vegeta and Krypton, ) to Earth with the mission of destroying/preserving it, and would later be adopted by a man/family who taught them the values of their powers and abilities (Grandpa Gohan and Jonathan And Martha Kent), who would also give them alternate identities to differ themselves from their original names (Son Goku instead of Kakarot, and Clark Joseph Kent instead of Kal-El ). They later became instrumental forces in their universe , and so much more.
• They even met a loving human wife ( Lois Lane and Chi- Chi) , and started a family , even having hybrid children whose powers increase with emotion and named after the man who raised him. ( Jonathan Samuel Kent / Superboy and Son Gohan )
• They joined the greatest teams in their universe. (Z fighters/Universe 7 and Justice League/ Justice Society of America)
• Their world also has many similarities, including geneticly enhanced monsters (Cell and Doomsday ), childish yet dangerous supernatural entities (Kid Buu and Mister Myxlplyx ) ,Antagonistic members of their own species (Vegeta and Zod ) , Conquerors of Pure Evil ( Lord Freiza and Darkseid ) , and many...many others.
• They also have a close relationship with a human martial artist (Krillin and Batman), Long lost Family members ( Raditz and Supergirl ), Space Police ( Green Lanterns and The Intergalactic patrol ) , among many....many others.
• Both also use the word "Super" in their titles (Goku's Super Saiyan transformations and Superman ) and are based on mythology heroes ( Sun Wukong/ Monkey King and Heracles/God of Strength. )
It is finally here. It has come.
My End of year project.
One of the most controversial and detailed blogs I am going to do probably for this year and probably even next year. These two have a combined history of over 120 years , over a century , spanning across comics , mangas, movies, TV shows , commercials, different timelines , different universes , games and so much more.
The Man of Steel VS The legendary Super saiyan God.
The Man of Tomorrow VS The Hope of the Universe
SUPERMAN VS SON GOKU
This is my final blog of the year , my end of year project , well...I mean...else than the christmas special .
And wow what a ride it has been.
For this blog , I plan to do something different , which is to show scans of the feats I present , since this is such a hot debate. To show my reasoning , the sources I got my information from, and hopefully do a good job.
How you scale DC and DB characters reflect a lot on the person. You could be ignorant and blind to reality , or maybe you drive a compelling point. And I would vastly prefer the latter.
With over a century worth of combined history , with lore , retcons , canons , and everything in between. I want to show all my respect to both of these characters as much as I can.
Oh and err….Happy Birthday Tubbo !
Ground rules:
We really need ground rules this time, especially for Goku.
No outside help. No Justice league , no Z-fighters, no vegeta , no trinity , No zeno, No families , etc. No outside help, just a one on one fight.
No outside non-standard gear , that means their current suits , no senzu beans , no phantom zone projector , no zeno button, no saiyan suits or kryptonian armours , no dragon balls , no power pole, No Superman belt shield , etc.
DC Rebirth Superman and Dragon Ball Super Canon and Manga Composition Goku will be used. Grand priest Goku , Cosmic Armour Superman , GT goku , Pre-crisis Superman , Dragon Ball evolution Goku, DCEU Superman , etc will not be used.
Rebirth Superman has feats from Post-crisis, New 52 and DC Rebirth, while Composite Goku has feats from both the Manga and Anime , I think that's the most fair.
They will be in character , they will only kill if required , i.e. Superman killing Doomsday , Goku killing Frieza, etc. Superman is not going to blitz Goku in Base form and Goku isn't just gonna hakai Superman instantly. They have morals and characters. You came to this fight to see Goku VS Superman , not just Someone with Goku's powers VS someone with Superman's powers , so I'm gonna give you Superman VS Goku.
They will be given their high end feats, so no goku getting one shot by a laser beam from a frieza soldier or superman being defeated by Hawkman, we are using things like goku fighting beerus or Superman fighting Darkseid for actual feats.
Let's get started , there's a ton, and I mean a ton to go through. So Let's begin where we always begin...
Power , Strength and Durability:
Oh god. There's so much to cover. We have covered how powerful DC Heralds are in the past, so I think we should start with Son Goku first.
Let's start with Goku, how powerful is he? Well….hard to say.
I'll be avoiding mental gymnastics for as much of the scaling for Goku as possible. People call DC scaling inconsistent , but Dragon Ball's is a nightmare. Most of it is induced by Plot, and thus I will consider only the most essential plot points.
For example, Base Goku and Final Form Freiza are able to fight on par with Android 17 when battling Jiren.
So Base Post-TOP Goku = Android 17 > Pre-TOP Blue Goku? Did Goku become over 4,000,000 times more powerful from just existing? I don't think so.
Another example, Goku Black is able to easily block attacks from Blue Vegeta in Base form.
However later , he gets destroyed in his Rosé form from Blue vegeta.
Did Vegeta become over 2000 times more powerful by….existing? It gets more and more illogical the more it goes on.
So goku? Well he grows linearly throughout the series , so we have to start at Battle of Gods.
In Battle Of Gods , Goku and Beerus were able to nearly destroy Dragon Ball's Universe 7 with one clash of their fists.
Given that Super Sayian God nearly destroyed the universe on accident and that the DragonBall Universe is around 9-13 times larger than ours with multiple realms like the Afterlife , Hell, Outerspace, etc , it's fair to state that Super Sayian God Goku from Battle of Gods is around 13 times universal.
Before we continue , I think it is important to note a common misconception. What is God's essence?
God Essence is when the user uses a small portion of Super Sayian God in other states.
This makes sense as when using God Essence , Goku becomes more powerful but does not get God Ki. God Essence does not affect the raw power of Super Sayian God.
I often see this misconception, which leads to many putting Golden Frieza in RoF at 20,000 times more powerful than God Goku in BoG , which is just illogical.
Later in Resurrection of Frieza , He turns into Super Saiyan Blue , and I quote...
Super saiyan Blue should have the same multiplier as Super Sayian ( 50 times ). While there are some contradictions to this , there are also supporters. ( Notably how God Goku can keep up with Base Kefla , while Blue Goku can keep up with Super Saiyan Kefla )
Goku as of Resurrection F is (13×50) or 650 times universal.
Next, the universe 6 tournament saga. While in the manga Goku does not use kaioken , since I'm using both I'll give the benefit of the doubt and use kaioken here .
The kaioken 20× is a 20 times multiplier , giving him a total of (650×20) or 13,000 times universal.
Next the Goku Black saga. In Goku's fight against merged Zamusu he uses 2 different techniques between the manga and anime.
He uses the Kaioken in the anime.
In the Manga he uses Perfect Blue.
The results are roughly equivalent, with Goku being able to fight Merged Zamaus but losing in the end. However , these techniques have never been combined before. It's unreasonable to state that they stack upon one another when no such example exists.
Next the Hit mini 3 episode saga.
Here against Hit , Goku does not use the kaioken, yet still beats the assassin despite having need to before. Thus the Blue goku of the Hit mini saga is 20 times Blue Goku of the Universe 6 tournament saga. Putting that extra multiplier.
This comes to around (13,000 × 20) or 260,000 universals.
The Tournament or Power.
What is the increase from Super Saiyan Blue Kaioken to Mastered Ultra Instinct?
Err……
Nothing really official has been given for this, the only thing we know is that MUI is massively above Blue Kaioken. Massively is….vague to say the least. Massive gaps in power have ranged from 2-4 times more powerful. ( Like with Gohan and Cell in the Cell Games ) to 40 times more powerful ( Like with Base Goku and Freiza in the Namek saga )
I have 2 hypothetical ways to find the multiplier given by Mastered Ultra Instinct , and they both give the same result.
Method 1 : Ultra Ego
This one is the simpler one.
Ultra Ego is the opposite and equal to Ultra Instinct, thus their multiplier should be equivalent.
Vegeta's Ultra Ego and Toppo's God of Destruction are 2 very similar forms.
-Both have destruction energy and take on Purple forms.
-They both involve diving fully into one's pride.
-Both were taught directly how to access the form by their gods of destruction.
While Vegeta's Ultra Ego is more advanced than Toppo's God of Destruction , it is fair to say that the original power increase should be similar.
Base Toppo was able to fight relatively equally to Blue Vegeta.
While Blue Evolution Vegeta was able to fight on par with God of Destruction Toppo, and Blue Evolution should be relative to Kaioken ×20 Blue Goku.
Seeing this :
Ultra Instinct = Ultra Ego = ×20 SSBE = ×20 Blue Kiaoken
Ultra Instinct is a 20 times multiplier.
Method 2 : Fusion
We know that Ultra Instinct Goku should be comparable to Blue Gogeta.
Meaning that
Gogeta/Vegito = 400 × Goku
Blue Gogeta = 400 × Blue Goku
Ultra Instinct = Blue Gogeta = 20 × Blue Kaioken
Ultra Instinct is a 20 times multiplier.
Thus from this , Goku should be able to destroy (260,000×20) 5,200,000 universes.
Over 5 million? That's a lot. Can Superman keep up?
Let's start with the foundation first.
The DC universe is a 100 trillion light years in diameter at minimum, as covered in "Green Lantern VS Ben 10" and shown in the image below.
Our own universe is 93 billion light years in diameter , making the DC universe roughly more than 1.2 billion times the size of our own universe. ( Or 1,243,229,063.7118 to be exact.)
This is a smaller estimate, as we'll get to later.
There are plenty of feats and statements showing Superman being able to destroy universes or rival people who could do similar.
Here's Superman admitting himself capable of destroying the phantom zone , a realm the size of a DC universe.
Here Kyle Rayner is holding back a big bang , and superman scales to green lanterns like Kyle Rayner.
Here's General Zod , Superman's equal, defeating Kyle Rayner.
Here is Hal Jordan fighting Dr Polaris amped with a universe.
And Superman should scale to Hal Jordan.
Here's Superman fighting Nebula Man , a living universe.
Superman can scale to Captain Atom.
And even defeated Captain Atom amped with Kryptonite , Superman's weakness.
Captain Atom can destroy a universe.
That makes Superman's output at being able to destroy +1,200,000,000 universes.
That's….absurd. That's almost 240 times more powerful than Goku. ( 239.0825122523 )
Even the 100 trillion light year diameter for the DC Universe is a massive underestimation. The DC universe already expands at 120 trillion light years per second.
Of course there is higher scaling for both too. Just Superman's higher scaling is just…way way WAY higher than Goku.
Like all the times he's just straight up overpowered out of hypertime.
Which is a multiverse.
Meet the World Forger , He's the guy that created the multiverse.
The DC Multiverse is stated numerous times to be infinite.
With each universe consisting of multiple multiverse size realms, like the Heavens ( A bit of that later ). And then Superman defeated him.
In a single hit…..
Then there's the true form of darkseid. To show how ridiculous he is. Him literally falling on the multiverse almost collapsed it.
And Superman defeats him by literally singing in string theory.
He and Wonder woman have too rocked the heavens by fighting.
And Superman has lifted the heavens as well. More into this when we get into the stamina category.
The heavens are a multiverse.
Even if Superman was 1% of any of that , he would still be infinitely above Goku.
That's ignoring all the times the DC universe has been stated to be infinite.
It gets crazier too! The DC universe has been stated to have an infinite dimensional structure!
It is also suggested that the phantom zone is the membrane of the (infinite) multiverse.
Going by these Superman would be able to destroy the infinite multiverse with infinite universes of infinite size with infinite spatial dimensions and other infinite multiverses inside of each universe and is many infinite layers of infinity above Goku…..
Sticking with him being roughly 240 times more powerful than Goku seems the most fair. So….what about speed?
Speed:
Let's start with Goku first.
Goku's top speed feat should be scaling to….ironically in a joke episode for Beerus and Whis.
In Dragon Ball Super Episode 69 ( ͡° ͜Ê– ͡°) , Whis brings Beerus from Beerus's planet to Earth in approximately 10 seconds. This should roughly be around 1 Dragon Ball universe in diameter. It should be shorter according to some calculations, but for an overestimate , it'll work.
Whis states that he has never gone that fast before, which should imply this should be the upper end of Whis's speed. For an overestimate , we will scale Goku directly to it.
Given that the DragonBall Universe is 13 times the size of ours, that would equate to 690 Quadrillion times the speed of light. ( 6.90 × 10¹⁷ ) ( ͡° ͜Ê– ͡°)
[ (³√13) universes × 93,000,000,000 light years × 9,461,000,000,000,000 meters per light year ÷ 10 seconds ÷ 299,792,458 m/s ]
What about Superman? Superman is a lot less linear , so it's going to require a few more calculations.
Starting with the slowest , here we have the infamous shattered god speed feat. The shattered god calls for fragments across the universe and within seconds, Wonder woman blocks them.
Superman should be relative in speed to Wonder woman, at least equal.
The shards are launched at the beginning of the panel and 59 words later , they reach the Shattered God.
Using the 100 trillion light year diameter again, and given that it took roughly 24 seconds , each shard must have been moving 131 Quintillion times the speed of light. ( 1.31 × 10²⁰ × c )
[ 100,000,000,000,000 light years ×9,461,000,000,000,000 meters per light year ÷ 24 seconds ÷ 299,792,458 m/s (Light speed) ]
Here's Superman traveling all around the multiverse within the span of a single heartbeat, destroying missiles capable of destroying the multiverse with the help of Ultraman and Overman.
These should have been able to destroy the multiverse within a few seconds, especially since this all happened within a heartbeat ( Which beats every 0.6 - 1 second ) , but for an underestimation….
Let us assume that Clark is crossing the entire diameter of the Universe in a second, this feat gives us a calculation of 3.16 Sextillion times the speed of light. ( 3.16 × 10²¹ × c )
[ 100,000,000,000,000 light years ×9,461,000,000,000,000 meters per light year ÷ 1 second ÷ 299,792,458 m/s ]
Keep in mind this is an underestimation. It also is consistent as Wally West ( Who was cautious about using the speed force because Barry died while using the speed force ) was able to outrun the expansion of the DC Universe, which expands 120 trillion light years in a second.
The Flash can also regularly travel the multiverse if he wants to, so it isn't out of the ordinary.
Not high enough? We can go faster. Brace yourself. Remember how Superman scales to Captain Atom? He can create and destroy a universe within a nanosecond.
Meaning Captain Atom created the universe at 7.32 Nonillion times the speed of light.
( 7.32 × 10³⁰ × c )
[ 2 × 100,000,000,000,000 light years ×9,461,000,000,000,000 meters per light year ÷0.000000001 seconds ÷ 299,792,458 m/s ( Light speed ) ]
Not fast enough? Well you're in luck. Superman can directly scale to the processing speed of a Green Lantern Power Ring.
Hal Jordan once sent SOS probes all over the universe within a heartbeat.
Being generous and assuming that the probes only to each star , that would be 2 Duodecillion times the speed of light. ( 1.96 × 10³⁹ × c )
[ (100,000,000,000,000÷93,000,000,000)^(3) universes × 100,000,000,000 galaxies per universe × 100,000,000,000 stars per galaxy × 5 light years between each star ×9,461,000,000,000,000 meters per ly ÷ 1 second ( Average time of heartbeat ) ÷ 299,792,458 (Light speed ) ]
The horrific thing is that….that isn't the highest speed calculation for Superman. It's honestly ridiculous.
Here. If you see that red line there , it states Superman can travel in Planck Time. Planck Time is the shortest possible time interval that can be measured. Planck Time literally defines the line at which current physical theories fail.
A Planck Time is 0.00000000000000000000000000000000000000000005.4 seconds. That's 44 zeros.
So assuming that Superman can travel 299,792,458 meters in a Planck time ( The distance light travels in a second, then Superman can move at 19 Tredecillion times the speed of light. ( 1.85528757 × 10⁴³ × c )
[ 299,792,458 meters ( Distance light travels in a second ) ÷ 0.0 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 539 seconds ÷ 299,792,458 m/s ( Light speed ) ]
It is not inconsistent as well, since Superman can scale to the Martian Manhunter.
Who also has planck time reaction feats of speed.
That's a lot. Funny how all these universe traveling feats are beaten out by 2 words.
Humans suck at understanding big numbers. These numbers mean nothing , so let's try to lay it flat.
( c = light speed )
Goku's speed is 6.90 × 10¹⁷ × c.
Superman's speed is 1.86 × 10⁴³ × c
Superman is around 27 Septillion times faster.
If Goku traveled 20 meters at top speed , Superman would have traveled across the entire universe.
Superman is , at minimum , over 10 thousand times faster at lowest , that's not even considering that it is a massive overestimation of Goku's speed.
There is an outlier of Goku being able to recognize the difference between instantaneous teleportation and teleporting somewhere instantly.
Which is ridiculous. This is highly inconsistent since:
a)Goku does not scale to instant transmission.
b)Goku has never shown speed as such before or ever since.
c)It does not even make sense. What on earth does this even mean???
Realistically at highest , Goku's reaction speed would scale to Whis's travel speed. Even if we use this outlier , which we shouldn't , Superman is still faster.
He has traveled faster than time too many times to count , which would put him at immeasurable speed and would make him infinitely faster than Goku.
Superman is faster than several flashes , and this is proven by DC as well. Here's DC listing Superman as the 4th fastest character in the DC universe. Though I'm unsure how accurate this list here is as it is missing a few characters and some are debatable , there is enough to compare the characters on the list.
Notably, Superman is faster than the Black Racer, literally death itself. He is only slower than 3 flashes, that being reverse flash , and the 2 Flashes.
So....Superman is faster than Goku. Goku is at a current disadvantage right now , being weaker and slower, but can he make up for other factors?
Experience and Intelligence:
Let's start with Experience first since that's the simplest. For those who are generally older it is very complex.
Goku was born in Age 736 and he is in Age 783 as of current Dragon Ball.
Superman is generally agreed upon to be in his 40s , though exact age is unknown.
Not even counting the hyperbolic time chamber or the "room of spirit and time", Goku still should be older....probably...not by much, not enough to make a large difference.
That's not really the interesting part , where it starts to get interesting is with intellect.
Superman no doubt is smarter in terms of intellect. Let's not even beat around the bush here.
Here's Superman finding problems in infinitely programmable self repairing spaceships.
Here's Superman reconstructing extra-dimensional machines from memory alone.
Here's Superman using string theory.
Here's Superman calculating the ballistics of every bullet fired by Bloodshot when meeting him for the first time.
Here is Superman learning how to be a surgeon in seconds and here's Superman being casually massively faster than a Supercomputer.
Even a weaker kryptonian, Jonathan Kent ( Superman's son ) on his literal first mission a few days after he got his powers , could process a week's worth of information in just a few seconds.
Goku...struggles at basic mathematics.
Goku isn't completely illiterate though. He knows when to hold his words.
But….Superman is still far smarter. Is that really a fair assessment though?
" Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree ,it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid. "
-Albert Einstein.
No. Goku's intelligence is not in his ability to do math , his intelligence is his skill and he is a genius when it comes to fighting. Being street smart is far more important than being booksmart.
And that's a nice transition into….
Skill :
Goku is a natural, even beyond that of the battle loving saiyans.
He has copied techniques like the Kamehameha , afterimage and flight only having seen it a few times prior. The Kamehameha took Master Roshi years to develop and Roshi is an expert in his own right.
He's learnt the hakai , a technique of a god of destruction.
He's even mastered Ultra instinct , a realm of combat exclusive to Gods of destruction and Angels. To those that don't know , Ultra Instinct is a technique that severs consciousness from the body in order to allow the body to subconsciously move it to even attack and evade, in Whis's own words.
If you don't understand that , Goku is so used to fighting that he can fight without thinking.
He's able to recognize weakness and form plans to press them against his opponents even when under pressure.
Goku can see potential in Gohan that not even Piccolo could see.
Impressive. Actually very impressive. If he can fight without thinking,he can easily dominate against Superman if Superman is not careful.
But Superman himself is no slouch in his own right.
Superman has gained training from Mongul, Batman, Wonder woman and General Zod , 4 certified warriors and leaders with centuries of combined experience.
He's taken out a group of thugs without his powers , just because he wanted to.
He's fought Muhammad Ali, commonly agreed to be not only in the top 5 , but the top 3 best boxers in the entire world. He lost…by a lot, but it's still worth noting.
He also knows pressure point combat , which he uses to take down his physical equal Ultraman within seconds.
He also knows Torquasm-rao and Torquasm-vo, but those are more of haxes, so we'll get to them later.
So Goku is more skilled. This is important, since Superman has been overcome by greater skill before.
Out of Wonder Woman and Superman's 15 fights ( Including non-main canon material ) , Wonder Woman won 8 with Superman winning half as many in 4 , with 3 draws.
Out of their canon fights , if I'm not mistaken, in 8 of them , Wonder Woman has won 7.
So Goku still has a chance here , but can he last long enough to play the long game?
Stamina:
Goku's stamina unfortunately isn't anything massively remarkable , especially compared to his ridiculous skill and firepower.
The Tournament of Power was only 48 minutes long , yet at the end Goku was left drained and weakened. That was with multiple breaks and receiving multiple power supplies , including from Freiza , Vegeta , and all of Universe 7's fighters.
Whis even called it out as a long time for a battle.
Meanwhile New 52 Superman manages to bench the entire weight of the Earth for 5 days straight without Sunlight.
Kind of 2 different tiers in terms of stamina , roughly about a 150 times difference.
Okay…..Maybe Earth is small scale. Maybe something bigger will convince you? Remember when Superman lifted the Heavens, an entire multiverse? He lifted it for an entire day.
Nothing Goku has can keep up with that.
Goku's highest stamina feat in non-exerting feat of stamina is him flying for 2 days straight to get to Earth.
Meanwhile, Superman doesn't need to sleep. He can stay awake for as long as needed.
There's also that time he fought a thousand year war. He fought this war alongside people like Wonder Woman and Thor…
Wait….Thor?...
Well….DC's version of Thor.
Goku has not shown enough showings of stamina to keep up with that. On the contrary, Dragon Ball characters have shown to struggle against characters who are not affected by stamina. Take Piccolo's fight against Android 17.
Initially he was evenly matched with Android 17 , until he started becoming fatigued and tired.
But Goku and Superman aren't just flying bricks, they can do more than just punch and kick. They have other powers too. Moving on to our final sections of discussion, it is time to discuss what they can do!
Abilities & Haxes:
For characters who are mainly known for punching really hard and flying really fast, these 2 are surprisingly versatile for a multitude of situations. From techniques to Superpowers , they practically have it all.
This is quite an important section for Goku. He is more commonly known as the more versatile of the 2 , and given that he is at a physical disadvantage , this will be another one of his really important categories.
I'll start with Goku abilities,t hen Superman's abilities, then go into counters.
So….what can Goku do? Let's start off with the base of his powers , Ki energy.
He has access to Ki , which is the Japanese name for internal energy of the soul, very similar to Chinese's Chi energy.
With it , he can fly.
He can use it to fire ki blasts, most commonly used for the Kamehameha and all its different variations, such as the bending Kamehameha.
He can use ki to make shields , even making them as a child.
He has the Denki Dama , or alternatively called , The Spirit Bomb. This is where the user collects energy from their surroundings and practically drops a nuke on pure evil villains. He has covered gaps of over 20 times with this technique before.
Next he has the instant transmission, allowing him to teleport from place to place with a thought. He has used this in combination with other attacks , notably the Kamehameha against cell.
A key conception, Goku's speed should not scale to the instant transmission. This is even supported in the show , where despite Cell being stronger and faster than Super Saiyan grade 4 Goku , he could not react to the instant transmission.
The instant transmission can also work ridiculously far distances, as long as there is a source at the location where the user teleports. Goku is able to travel from Beerus's planet once he got a hold of Gohan's ki ( Which at most should be Large star level if scaling off Android 18).
Next...Taiyoken or the solar flare. A technique that blasts Ki into the surroundings to blind and stun their opponents.
The solar flare fails? He can always switch to the god bind. The god bind is where goku surrounds his opponent in god ki to immobilize his opponents, however it can be overpowered by raw strength , as seen with Broly.
( Funnily , This , the Ki shields and (later) the Gravity Bash are the only techniques he creates himself. )
The God Bind and Solar Flare are especially dangerous when used with the kienzan, or destructo disc. This technique takes Ki and transforms it into a spinning blade of sorts to slice through opponents over 50 times more powerful , as seen with Krillin against Second form Frieza.
Furthermore, the...err...Destructo disc hexa blade is an evolution of the kienzan with 6 discs used for either attacking…
or trapping...
If you want trapping, landmines are the way to go. By leaving tiny specks of energy on the ground , stepping on it can detonate it and cause damage with fractions of goku's power.
There is also the Mafuba or "Evil Containment Wave" , which traps an opponent in a container.
Though it only works with a container like a pot or a small capsule.
He also can use the hakai , a technique used by the gods that can erase anyone from existence, including spirits.
Those are Goku's main strongest techniques, the rest are not too strong or important like the gravity bash or Finger guns.
That's quite a bit of abilities, now...let's start with Superman abilities.
He has flight and can breathe in space.
He can use heat vision, strong enough to blast on par with omega beams. One of these omega beams almost instantly vaporized Supergirl , Supergirl being capable of fighting with Clark.
He has Freeze breath , capable of fighting against Darkseid and Wonder Woman , 2 people just as powerful as him , in the case of Darkseid likely more powerful.
He has X-ray vision , strong enough to do surgery and depower Manchester Black. He can also see molecules and combine this with heat vision , he can attack specific parts like vocal chords.
He has a few other Super sense, Super hearing is a notable one.
His other super senses allow him to act on a Quantum level.
Those are most of Superman's abilities , but he does have a lot more abilities that he has picked up from his other abilities. With his speed , he can phase through objects, good enough to completely avoid Doomsday.
With his speed , he can also travel through time.
He has Torquasm-vo , a form of mental martial arts. A "theta state" that allows for low tier reality warping and soul attacks.
And Torquasm-rao,a form of krytonian meditation which increases reaction speed and concentration. It also helps resist mind and soul manipulation. Think of it like Kryptonian Tai chi.
Lastly , he has the solar flare. Not to be confused with Goku's solar flare. This is when he builds up all the yellow sunlight in his body and pumps it to explode as a massive bomb.
To give a scale of how powerful this is, we look to Jonathan Kent once more.
In his first usage of this ability , he managed to take down the combined might of the teen titans all by himself, including the combined forces of Raven, Starfire and Kid Flash.
Later in the story, Jon literally a day later let out a bomb so powerful that it required Superman, the titans of tommorrow, and the Teen titans could not hold back the bomb. In the end they needed Saviour to suck up the bomb in a time portal.
They had 2 Supermen , 2 Flashes , Raven and Starfire , and yet they could barely contain the bomb.
It does however leave Superman depowered for an entire day , so it's a last resort kind of thing.
So yeah, quite a few abilities to discuss. How do they pair off? Let's get into that shall we?
Counters:
In the final category, letting Goku take the lead . How can his abilities stop Superman?
Firstly , the instant transmission is the perfect counter to Superman's solar flare. It perfectly negates the Solar Flare perfectly , he can just get out of the blast radius. Or teleport the blast away , like he did with Cell's self destruction.
Goku's instant transmission will allow him to not be completely destroyed by the speed gap, at least for a while.
Goku's techniques can close the gap between Superman and Goku's power. His Kamehameha can increase his total power.
And the destructo disc/kienzan , if used in mastered ultra instinct, can potentially cut straight through lower end Clark when using Clark being 240 times stronger than Goku. Especially since Krillin casually cut through someone 48 times more powerful than him.
Superman has Torquasm-vo, while Goku has image training. This is when he can train mentally and become more powerful , without the need for physically fighting.
Goku also has astral projection , which is similar to the way Torquasm-vo works.
Ultra Instinct should be able to counter Torquasm-rao since it just gives a larger increase to concentration and reaction speed.
Heat Vision and Freeze Breath are also less versatile than most of Goku's Ki . Whilst Heat vision can ricochet off objects, Goku can bend , manipulate and project in ways Superman cannot.
He can also morph ki into weapons like Ki swords and constructs like scythes if he wanted.
Ki can also potentially counter Freeze Breath, seeing that Ki is generally referred to as really hot.
Not bad. That's a decent chunk of Superman's abilities countered.
How does Superman fare against this?
Similar to the Instant Transmission VS Solar Flare scenario , Superman's resistances will be able to negate any effect of the Hakai. He has resisted Darkseid's omega beams , considered as existent erasure beams capable of even killing Supergirl. Besides , Other characters have stopped hakai energy by simply being more powerful , for example , Frieza.
Superman has also resisted erasure via reality warping. Safe to say he can resist the Hakai.
Superman's heat vision, despite being less versatile and flexible, still does increase Superman's power , allowing him to injure people like darkseid.
Jon Kent , who is weaker than Superman , is able to scorch Superman's back when using heat vision for the second time and injure doomsday.
The Genki-dama's charge time is too long , and it only works on the people with evil in their heart, and Superman is undoubtedly not evil.
He's one of the few people who gives Batman hope. Batman!?
Besides, the success rate on that thing is horrible anyways. Frieza , a villian of practically pure evil, managed to survive it with a 20 times power gap, albeit a lot of injuries.
The Evil Containment Wave does not work without a pot and even if it does , Superman has resisted reality warping to his soul before. He has resisted reality warping from Mxyzptlk , a fifth Dimensional entity, that affected the very essence of his soul.
And Superman can affect Goku's organs. Not like he is invincible to such attacks , he even died from a heart virus once.
The solar flare (Dragon ball one) , won't work on Superman , due to his X-ray vision.
Other traps like landmines can be countered with things like Superman's hearing. He'll know when everything is coming.
Goku has also shown that he is not immune to pressure point combat.
Then Goku has 0 counter to Superman's time travel as well. Even if we give Goku Trunks's time machine , it is still less versatile, slower and can be destroyed.
And Superman's phasing is horrible news for Goku. As we learn , Ki energy has mass. It is physical energy.
Meaning Superman can phase through Ki.
All Ki.
Outside of a few techniques that attack the soul, nothing can even touch him.
This thing can counter everything Goku has to throw at him. Seeing that Superman can phase through Doomsday's attacks , I don't see any attack Goku can throw at him that would hit.
Even the Flash while holding back can brawl with a bloodlusted Supergirl by tapping into the speed force and vibrating.
Goku is lucky that Superman is a Superhero and a genuinely nice person. If he wanted to, he could just…
Goku cannot breathe in space either. Even now Vegeta states that Goku cannot breathe in space.
There is even a chance Superman can absorb Ki, given that he absorbed electromagnetic energy from the totality before.
FINAL VERDICT:
So who wins and who loses?
Goku:
+Skill
+Experience
+Can control the battlefield with haxes.
+More Versatility but….
-Most , if not all, abilities can be countered.
-Cannot counter Superman's best abilities.
Superman:
+Strength
+Speed
+Can control the battlefield with higher stats.
+Intellect
+Stamina
+Better win cons
-Less consistent…
+But more feats….
Goku can win if he can push his skill and versatility advantage. Just completely dominate with his skill and wear down Superman with his versatility, especially with things like the god bind or destructo discs. Rely on the fact that Superman holds back a lot and that he can be inconsistent and punishes on it as much as possible.
It's how people like Batman survive fights with him without breaking bones or dying.
But then…Goku also holds back too. And then Superman's winning conditions are just...better and more vast.
He can overpower or speed blitz Goku with the potentially infinite strength and speed difference, and that's just the basics.
He can time travel. He can throw Goku back through time, or just go back in time to recoup if needed.
Not only can he phrase through all of Goku's attacks, but he can attack him through phasing. If he wanted to, he could just bypass Goku's durability and attack his organs. It's a ridiculously strong offensive and defensive option, and could win the fight by itself.
While Superman's X-ray can't disable Goku's powers since they come from his lifeforce but combined with his heat vision, he is able to harm goku's organs with them as well.
Superman also has other abilities, including energy absorption, which should be able to nullify vast amounts of Goku's arsenal.
If things get desperate, what stops Superman from flying to space? Goku cannot breathe in space, giving Superman endless time to recharge and heal.
Or worse comes to worst , he can even just outlast Goku. Stall Goku until he gets tired and defeat him with his superior stamina.
This is Composite Goku. Unlike Rebirth Superman, who canonically has feats from both rebirth and post-crisis, Goku generally stays as Manga only or Anime Only. If I used Anime only or Manga only, Goku would be slower, less skilled, less experienced and less versatile in comparison to composite Goku.
Goku has 1 universal feat, which is him and beerus almost destroying the universe , and from there I used multipliers to get him to where he is at 5,200,000 times universal.
1 feat. The literal next saga, Blue Vegeta gets one shot by a planet level explosion.
Meanwhile , Superman has so SO SOOOO many multiversal power feats and immeasurable speed feats that I didn't put them in in fear of looking biased.
Early New 52 Superman in his freaking jeans punched Brainiac so hard that every past version of him felt it.
Early New 52 Superman….the guy that has jeans, a Superman T-shirt , and a Cape that looks the size of an apron and had barely just started his career as Superman.
Superman has many, many ways to win here.
Goku only has one winning scenario and that is to rely on Superman's humanity and restraint and hope that Superman is having an off-day and is holding back, and try to take out Superman before he gets serious.
The only thing Superman needs to do is just take the fight seriously.
When your best scenario to victory is to hope that your opponent is going easy on you , then the result is clear.
I think I have argued my case here.
WINNER : Superman ( Detective Comics )
Oh wow...that was...a lot.
I think I'm extremely satisfied with this one. The scans , the feats , they were a nightmare to search, find and store all of them. There were over 300 images used for this blog , either for research or for evidence.
These characters mean a lot to me. I have grown up with both and I have gone back and forth on the debate.
Thinking Superman would win from Death Battle back in 20th January 2012 to thinking Goku would win with MUI.
I have been researching a ton on this. Because how you scale DC and Dragon Ball Characters can show a lot about your character and I wanted to show the world my best.
I think Superman would win a fight against Goku.
But maybe I have been asking the wrong question. I've been so focused on who would win in a fight that I've never questioned what I am doing.
Superman and Goku are more than just heroes, they mean so much more than just fighters.
They are inspirations.
They are powerful because they seek self improvement. They chase tomorrow to be better than they were today.
Goku always pushes himself further. Training to be better than he was today. To become more powerful and more skilled. To challenge the best to become better. To chase himself so that he can improve just that little bit.
Superman always pushes himself further. Just not in the same way Goku does. He trains to become a better person. A better icon. He saves the world fighting to save just one more person. Because sometimes, well in his own words...
"That's enough."
They are husbands and fathers , and would sacrifice their lives for who they love. They might not be from this world, but in the end....
They're human. And what's more heroic than being human?
So....Christmas Special.
Remember at the beginning of the year...I made a promise to someone all the way back in "Technoblade VS Deadpool "?
I think it's their calling. Gods of strength will sing their rejected symphony.
Thank you so much for reading through this. I put a lot of effort into this , far too much to be considered sane.
So I hope you enjoyed it, and I hope you've gained a newfound interest in what I have covered today, or at least acquired insight. Just learn something new.
This is all just in good fun anyways.
See you in a few days for Christmas.
Bye!
Thank you. So long nerds!
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