Vegeta VS Thor ( Dragon Ball Z VS Marvel Comics )
" Pride is concerned with who is right. Humility is concerned with what is right." -Ezra Taft Benson
Thor VS Vegeta ( Marvel Comics VS Dragon Ball)
I have been pretty excited about this, I've been looking forward to this for a long time. A relook into Dragon Ball and my first deep dive into Marvel's strongest.
285 images & over 4700 words;that being said, I hope you enjoy it.
Ground Rules:
No outside help is allowed. Neither will preparation time be given. No outside non-standard gear. They will be in character. They will be given their high-end feats in line with what makes sense for their character.
Alright, let us get started.
Before we get into strength and durability, it is important to look into our opponents' respective cosmologies first.
Dragon Ball's Cosmology:
How big is the Dragon Ball Universe?
Dragon Ball comprises a multiverse of 18 Marcocosms, each marcocosm comprising of a multi-universal structure.
(Here features the 12 macrocosms taking part in the Tournament of power.)
The main universe we follow is Universe 7, which is the mainline universe that we follow, and the universe that is relevant to discussion.
Universe 7 has the mortal realm, which is their substitute for the observable universe. Above that is the Heavens, and other realms such as hell, Beerus's planet, and the realm of the Kais, among many others. Earth is located in the living realm and is the bottom hemisphere of the diagram.
Using this diagram of the Dragon Ball Universe as a scale , Dragon Ball's Universe 7 is about 13.29 times the size of our universe.
( Volume = 5.3177828×10⁸¹m³ )
DB Universe : 13.29× Universal.
DB Multiverse : 239.22× Universal
Marvel’s Cosmology:
How big is the Marvel Universe?
The actual size of the Marvel Universe is a bit more complicated because, unlike Dragon Ball, we don't actually have a concrete map for the Marvel Universe.
( This is the closest thing we get to a map of the Marvel Multiverse. )
The Marvel Omniverse is….well….really big. With things like the Overspace, Microverse, Superflow, etcetera.
For what is relevant to this blog, I'll be discussing the main Marvel Multiverse.
The Marvel Multiverse comprises millions of Marvel Marcocosms, each with their own Cosmologies.
Each Marvel Macrocosm contains a world tree, each varying in size. For the purposes of this blog, the main universe we will follow is Earth 616, which is the respective mainline universe of Marvel.
This is a Yggdrasil , or the "World Tree." A giant tree from Norse Mythology that connects universes together. There are 10 realms, housing all of reality. Midgard is our own observable universe, of course, housing earth.
Yggdrasil's size:
The world tree, as we know it, has 10 known universes, with possibly infinitely more universes below the waters. Here are a few statements of such.
"The Asgardian World Tree is like a map, okay? The Nine Worlds you recognize as a part of Yggdrasil are just the tip of...a maybe-infinite iceberg. What you know as worlds...are universes. Complex, discrete, fully-formed." -Eric Solvang.
" Ah, Volstagg’s small man with big thoughts. Yes. He’s right. We know. " -Balder the Brave on the previous statement.
" The tree that is everything. That has its roots and branches in all that is. There are ten realms in this reality--ten - spheres, ten universes, and the tree winds through them all. Through every star and planet. Every hero and villain. Every story. ” -Odin to Loki.
"There are infinite universes, infinite possibilities, and infinite realms. There’s a universe where Volstagg and he never existed--a universe where Volstagg is the smart one and is telling this to Solvang--or a universe where they’re both dead. Anything that can exist does exist within the grand scheme of spacetime. A quantum metaverse. That is what the Asgardian aspect of Yggdrasil is." -Dr Solvang
Yggdrasil also serves as a map of all of space and time, which has been stated numerous times.
" The Asgardian World Tree spans space and time, growing in directions of which we can scarcely conceive. The World Tree is very much a living thing. A complex and chaotic system, turbulent and changing " -Thor Odinson
Heimdall can see and hear as far as creation, so his word is reliable when he says that Yggdrasil contains all of space & time…..especially when he has said it 4 different times.
In addition, it has evidence of having an infinite dimensional structure. It has directly been stated to be trans-dimensional.
Yggdrasil also holds the Negative Zone and Sub-space, which are both composed of infinite higher dimensions. This is supported by the fact that it is within the vision of Heimdall.
It has been referred to as having infinite layers.
Outside of statements of unquantifiable size, what quantifiable number can we put to the size of Yggdrasil. While there are at least 10 universe sized realms, not all universes are the same size, and this is confirmed by Lady Allmour of the Pleasure Lands.
“Niffleheim is the largest realm in all existence. And by far the most populated, because everyone who has ever died resides here on these frozen shores.”
^ We can get a rough approximation of the size of the main 10 realms and world tree in comparison to a standard Marvel universe to get a rough gauge of its size.
( 52,910.3641 times the size of Midgard )
Midgard size:
We have a few statements on the size of Marvel's Midgard. According to Starbrand, he could hear around the Marvel universe up to over a trillion light years away from earth. Comparatively, our universe is only 46.5 billion light years in radius.
This gives a size of roughly 9,945 times the size of our universe.
There is also a statement of Balder the Brave moving across "1 trillion thought years" to the edge of the universe. The speed of thought is faster than light, though it is up for debate.
On one hand , it can travel to the edge of a galaxy instantaneously. On the other hand, Spiderman is moving at the speed of thought.
There is also a statement of a Marvel Universe being able to contain centillions of beings. Yes. That is a real number. That is 303 zeros.
(3.47 × 10²²¹ times universal.)
(This could have been hyperbole,so take with a grain of salt.)
The Marvel Universe, similar to the DC Universe, has multiple points examples of it being infinite in size. In fact, I have found 17 statements implying on an infinite universe.
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A solid 11 of these come from the Silver Surfer, and he isn't the only reliable source out there. Several other deities believe in an infinite universe with 13 other sources: sources such as the watcher or the living tribunal who watch over the universe and multiverse, respectively.
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With over 30 sources stating an infinite universe, it's quite hard to argue against it.
For the minimum quantifiable sizes:
Midgard : 9945.833× universal
Yggdrasil : 526,237,669.09469× universal
Strength & Durability:
Both Goku and Vegeta recently got a big boost in recent sagas, so let us do a quick recap on our current scaling for Vegeta before we get onto all the new information.
Quick recap:
Goku and Beerus' clashing attacks nearly destroyed the entire Dragon Ball Macrocosm.
Super Saiyan Blue multiplied that by 50, and Goku grew around 20 times stronger when fighting Hit the assassin before the Tournament of Power.
Super Saiyan Blue Evolution should be comparable to the Kaioken, giving Vegeta a 20 times multiplier. Finally, Ultra Ego should be comparable to Toppo’s God of Destruction form, stacking another 20 times multiplier.
The final result we left off with last time was 5,200,000 times universal as of the Tournament of Power. However, recently, the Moro and Granola arcs have gone by, and Vegeta has gained a few boosts since then.
First and foremost, the Moro Arc.
Vegeta here trains with the Yardrats, people with some of the greatest key control in the universe. By the end of it, his power has increased “Leaps and Bounds”.
How much does “Leaps and Bounds” mean? Well, let us see. In his fight against Moro at the end of the Moro Arc, Blue Evolution Vegeta is able to fight against Moro better than UI-Sign Goku could, Piccolo noting that Vegeta could have potentially surpassed Goku ( Who had last appeared in UI-sign ). Ergo, Vegeta’s training power increase should be equal to that of UI-sign, no?
How legitimate is this? Well, Vegeta was using a specific technique called “Forced Spirit Fission” [ More on this in the abilities section ]. This pretty much artificially closes the gap of power between Moro and Vegeta , so it isn’t a display of 100% Vegeta.
Furthermore, Goku lost more to a stamina disadvantage rather than a power disadvantage. Piccolo too notes that the gap between Moro and Vegeta is still too great for Vegeta to overcome manually. When MUI Goku appears later, MUI Goku causally dominates Moro until Moro starts using other methods of increasing power.
(After MUI shows up, Moro crumbles in fear )
As an overestimate, let us assume that Vegeta’s Yardrat Training is equal to the UI-sign multiplier. Then, what is the UI-sign multiplier?
Tough to say, MUI is an anomaly in that it is both a form and a technique, it is difficult to say what exactly “Mastering Ultra Instinct” entails since we literally have never seen any form like it.
Our best bet to gauge this is to compare it to the only other mastered form we know a lot about.
Master Super Saiyan , or Super Saiyan Grade 4, is the mastery of the Super Sayian form so that it requires practically no stamina. It was achieved during the Cell Games and quite blatantly stated to have no power increase over normal Super Sayian.
However, it sets a good gauge for where I can base the power difference between UI-Sign and MUI. The difference between the 2 forms should be around the same level of that of the Super Saiyan 2 form, given the mastery of both forms. [ Super Saiyan Grade 5 ] That would be a 2 times multiplier.
That puts Vegeta’s base power increase at about 10 times.
[ This is an overestimate since Vegeta downscales from this, and the methods of finding this number are scuffed to say the least. This is okay, though, as I will get into in the next arc. ]
The followup, the Granola arc, sees some big changes for Vegeta. This is when we are introduced to not only Ultra Ego but also True Ultra Ego.
Ultra Ego and Ultra Instinct is unique among transformations as it is more of a state of mind.
For Ultra Instinct , it is having a clear mind and letting your body move on Instinct.
Ultra Ego, on the other hand, is having a mindset based on destruction and pride.
True Ultra Instinct & True Ultra Ego is allowing oneself to fully integrate and synchronize with the form, taking on the most efficient mindset suitable for the form.
I have covered Ultra Ego before, but I have not yet covered True Ultra Ego. How much is the gap?
The gap should probably be akin to the gap between MUI and UI-sign. True Ultra Instinct Sign Goku was able to output more power than the white form form; this is thus giving a multiplier of 2.
[ This is an underestimation , but earlier, we had an overestimation. By the law of averages , these 2 would balance out , giving a relatively accurate estimation of Ultra Ego's firepower. ]
Stacking our 10 times training multiplier and our 2 times "True" multiplier , you will get 106,320,000 times universal.
Not bad , how about Thor Odinson?
There are several instances of Thor-level characters having universal feats of power. Thor himself has multiple points of universal scaling.
So does the Hulk.
Characters like Hercules, too.
Thor, Hulk, and Silver Surfer have handled the energy of 2 universes.
Hyperion survives at the centre of an incursion, which is when 2 Marvel Cosmologies from 2 different universes collide.
Human Torch, amped by 1000 versions of himself, is able to reach Planck temperature and output power enough to destroy octillions of universes.
Destroying 2 Yggdrasils would put Hyperion at least a billion times universal, around 10 times the difference from Vegeta's maximum output.
Not to mention, Marvel has their own multipliers as well. Such as Green Scar Hulk scaling above Pandora's box , which was put at 133.45× the power of Hercules.
Green Scar Hulk was able to dismantle Thor-level villains powered a thousand fold.
Thor's warrior madness gives him a 10 times increase, and his belt of strength gives him a 2 times increase.
( Though with drawbacks to sanity and stamina, respectively )
Speaking of multipliers, it is important to take note that the method of calculation used for Vegeta is actually quite risky since it is heavily relying on Calc stacking.
What is Calc Stacking?
Calculation stacking , or Calc Stacking, is when multipliers are stacked upon each other to get a result far above what has actually been shown.
Vegeta has 6 points of calculation stacking.
1. Blue multipliers
2. Hit multipliers
3. Evolved multipliers
4. Ultra Ego multipliers
5. Moro multiplier
6. True Ultra Ego multipliers
These have questionable reliability, as they show results far above what has actually been shown in the series.
For example:
In Super Saiyan Blue's first appearance , Vegeta was killed from the destruction of earth.
In the Goku Black arc, Merged Zamaus only threatened the galaxy and only threatened the universe as infinite Zamasu.
Meanwhile, Thor can go even higher to characters like Odin, who can tear apart the fabric of the multiverse.
With people like Hela and Mephisto being able to cause omniversal armageddon.
You could argue that Thor holds back a lot, but so does Vegeta.
( Vegeta goes blue instead of blue evolution )
And when Thor stops holding back, he can take out characters as strong as the Hulk in a single hit. He has done this not once but twice.
I can continue, but it is quite clear that no matter what way you slice it, Thor is quite a comfortable power advantage against the Saiyan Prince even on a good day, even without diving into layers of infinity.
Thor is stronger, but who is faster?
Speed:
Speed is relatively a lot less complicated, but we still have interesting things to cover.
First and foremost, how fast is Vegeta? Okay, something interesting happened after the last time I covered a Dragon Ball Character.
Last time, I upscaled them to Whis travelling from Beerus's planet to Earth in 10 seconds. Between Earth and Beerus's planet is at most 2 Dragon Ball Universe diameters in length , earning 690 Quadrillion times the speed of light.
However ,recently, Gas -a being on par with Ultra Instinct Goku & Ultra Ego Vegeta- needed a whole 20 minutes to travel to Planet Cereal. 120 times slower than last time at 5.75 Quadrillion c.
Scaling to Whis the angel is also extremely generous. When Moro tried to copy the abilities of Merus , an angel in training, he overloaded to the point of insanity.
(Copies Merus's powers)
Eventually, even after using the entire earth as a vessel to store energy….
Moro still goes insane. The difference between Whis and Vegeta is a pretty massive one.
Meanwhile, how fast is Thor?
Numerous Marvel Characters have travelled across their respective Marvel Universe Diameter as well.
Notably, they really like travelling to places like Asgard and the Heavens, which is about, at minimum, a universe away on a good day.
Both Hermes & Venus have travelled to the heavens in "mere seconds" and "the twinkling of the eye," respectively. Venus even managed to complete the journey so fast that her boss didn't notice.
Thor regularly travels to Asgard, which makes sense since he lives in Asgard. I've gathered 8 different instances of such.
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He has even answered prayers from a universe away within seconds.
Thor has even sent Mjölnir through the 10 realms; Thor is faster than Mjölnir.
Loki has a few shenanigans with speed feats. He sent Ulik to Asgard, "Faster than a human eye can scan these words." He himself travelled from Asgard to earth in "a wink of an eye" and, on occasion, travelled to earth in a microsecond.
One of the fastest calculable speed feats is Valkyrie scanned all the 10 realms in "a blink of an eye."
This is also backed up by the god of war, Ares, who could move in Planck time alongside X-man.
There are some quick calculations for these feats.
(At minimum 2,000 times faster)
There are also several instances of immeasurable speed , like how both Thor & Mjölnir have outraged the Silver Surfer
Silver Surfer can go back in time under his own speed.
And escape the destruction of the Never Queen, the conceptual abstract of possibility across all of time and space.
Valkyrie has thrown Heimdall outside the omniverse.
Thor is faster , but what about other factors? Such as…..
Skill & Experience:
Thor is a seasoned warrior, and his skills certainly reflect such.
He has defeated the Warriors 3, some of the finest Asgard has to offer.
He has fought gods twice his age.
He fought and defeated Manbeast, whose knowledge of combat is a million years more advanced than those at the time.
Fought against Captain America and Shang Chi, who both know every martial art and are marked as some of the greatest Marvel has to offer.
Thor is extremely skilled, but so is Vegeta, and he has been improving at a massive rate.
He is one of the finest Dragon Ball has to offer, training with the angels and the gods.
And can fight against Dragon Ball's finest in Goku.
It is debatable between who is more skilled between Thor & Vegeta, but one thing is for certain.
Thor is a lot more experienced.
Accounting for the hyperbolic time chamber, Vegeta is around 54 years old.
Thor's age is harder , as it has never been confirmed, but he has existed since the stone age, 1.8 million years ago.
Thor is older, but who is smarter?
Intellect & Stamina:
While he seems like a raw brute, Thor is actually incredibly smart if he needs to be.
He knows every language.
Both his knowledge and his wisdom have been praised.
Even by that of Loki.
Thor has created robots with IQs of 375.
Vegeta may not be smart in the traditional sense, but he is a genius in combat, showcased well with his battles against Merged Zamasu and Granola (when he isn't being a cocky prick. )
In terms of stamina, however, there is quite a difference. Vegeta manages to fight throughout the Tournament of Power, which lasts 48 minutes.
And is capable of managing 450 times earth's gravity.
Meanwhile, Thor can wrestle Hulk for an hour straight.
Thor has also fought against the undead for 40 days straight.
Thor has higher stamina, but Vegeta can still pull through a win if he has better abilities. Which brings us to....
Abilities & Counters:
Vegeta abilities:
A vast set of Vegeta's abilities serve well in enhancing his own power.
See the Big Bang Attack,
Galick Gun,
Final Flash.
As well as slicing techniques such as a ki sword or the Tail Slicer.
Vegeta also has all the standard abilities like flight and ki blasts.
Vegeta also has a few special techniques, though with a few caveats.
Vegeta has instant transmission, though he is extremely unskilled with it. It allows him to teleport long distances.
Similar goes with the Hakai. The Hakai is a form of existence erasure, though for now, we have only seen it done on a small rock.
(The most he has destroyed is this small rock )
He has forced Spirit Fission, which basically separates energy from a user, although he needs to land attacks in order for it to be effective.
Thor abilities:
Thor has a lot of abilities, which is fitting for a god of his caliber . He obviously has his usual abilities, such as his flight and lightning.
In fact , lightning is potent enough to injure the Chaos King, and the Chaos King is capable of destroying 98.76% of the Marvel Multiverse.
He has a lot of gear as well, such as Jarnbjorn, his axe that he uses while he is unworthy. It has enchantments that Heralds like Apocalypse can not break through and is sharp enough to cut through Celestial armour.
Additionally, as I mentioned earlier, Thor has Megingjord, the belt of strength, which doubles his strength for the cost of stamina. He can even add this to Mjölnir himself.
Thor also has allies he can summon.
The Raven Scouts of Huginn and Muninn, who can travel realms in seconds to gather information.
His mystical goats of Toothgrinder and Toothgnasher, who can travel realms and bring Thor around. They also serve as Thor's unlimited food supply.
Most importantly of all.
Mjölnir.
Mjölnir is Thor's mighty hammer made of Uru, forged in the heart of a dying star, literally translating in "Grinder." It holds not only the "worthiness" enchantment but also the God Tempest. (More on that later)
Combined with his own natural godly abilities, he has an absolute goldmine of powers to pull from.
He has access to the Gaeaforce, granting him control of not only plantlife but earth itself. He can manipulate lightning & storms, fire & water, energy, magnetism, and matter.
Earth & Nature:
Lightning & Storms:
Fire:
Tidal Waves:
Energy:
Matter:
He can turn invisible & intangible, absorb the lifeforce of an opponent, and manipulate time, minds, and souls.
Invisibility & Intangiblity:
Energy absorption:
Time manipulation:
Mind Manipulation:
Soul Manipulation:
He can travel through dimensions, seal others away in other dimensions, create force fields, and have his own form of existence erasure.
He has the god-blast, where he channels all of his divine energy into a devastating magical blast.
He can even manipulate life ,death, and reality on a Quantum scale.
Mjölnir can also pin the unworthy.
The Immortal Avenger?
He's also kind of ....Immortal;More specifically, Type 4 & Type 9 Immortality….well also Type 2 Immortality, but that is less important.
So….what does that mean? I can explain it another time, but it is easier to show it.
When Thor died on different occasions, he managed to come back from a prayer.
( Thor coming back to life because of a prayer from Donald Blake )
When powered by the prayers of the gods, he was able to absorb the GodBomb, a weapon potent enough to kill every god that ever was.
You see , in Marvel, the gods are simply concepts given shape. They are stories and myths given physical forms through the belief of mankind. They are extra dimensional representations of abstract concepts.
Putting it in simpler terms, Asgardians are given life through people believing in them. As long as people believe in them, they have the power to come back to life.
To be fair to Vegeta , the usage of this is limited and changes from writer to writer. Vegeta doesn't need to kill Thor in order to win. He just needs to knock Thor out.
Additionally, resurrection takes time, and there have been times when Thor has just died and stayed dead.
Sometimes, Thor accepts death and goes to Valhalla.
While I doubt it is too important, it is still interesting to note that technically, Vegeta can not permanently kill Thor unless he erases the concept of Thor.
Counters:
Thor counters:
Vegeta is still developing in his abilities, and thus Thor can kind of just ignore a large majority of Vegeta's abilities.
A lot of Vegeta's attacks are based on raw power, which is bad for him since Thor is more powerful.
Even with things such as the Hakai, Thor has entered realms that literally tear apart reality into nothingness.
He has resisted Mephisto spiritually erasing his soul.
And shrug off attacks that could coagulate him down to the protons.
Not to mention, Thor also has his own existence erasure abilities.
Thor's absorption abilities are also stronger than Vegeta since he can basically do it any time while Vegeta actually needs to hit Thor.
Meanwhile, Vegeta can't breathe in space.
So there is really nothing stopping Thor from just….
Yeeting Vegeta into Space.
Vegeta counters:
Vegeta struggles here simply because he does not really have any counters for Thor's abilities outside of simply overpowering them. Given the power disadvantage, that is also questionable.
He doesn't have any reliable counters to life & death manipulation, Intangibility, getting pinned by Mjölnir. etcetera.
He could potentially use Jarnbjorn against Thor since Jarnbjorn does not have the worthiness enchantment. Though comparatively, Jarnbjorn pales in comparison to Mjölnir.
Thor does actually have a weakness, though, and it is tied to one of his sources of power.
"Gorr was right."
Nick Fury was able to incapacitate Thor by whispering in his ear that "Gorr was right." Thor believes his word and becomes unworthy.
Here is a little context. Thor just had his battle against Gorr, the god butcher, a man who believes that the gods…basically are trash people and should die.
Thor at that time was going through a crisis with being worthy as well as fighting a battle against Gorr, who was also killing a large majority of Thor's god friends.
It is unlikely that Vegeta can actually capitalize on this, however, as he has no prior knowledge of this, and Thor has grown since then. Segwaying into the next question…..
Is Vegeta worthy?
This…is a complicated answer simply because what defines "worthy" is extremely vague.
Vegeta is able to partake in the Super Sayian God Ritual, which requires 6 good-hearted, righteous saiyans.
In the JLA/Avengers canon crossover, Superman was unable to lift Mjölnir simply because at that moment , there wasn't a righteous reason for Superman to lift Mjölnir.
Besides, Beta Ray Bill, an equal to Thor, who is also worthy of lifting the mallet, risked tearing his arm off when Thor called for it. Even if Vegeta is worthy , it ultimately does not make much of a difference.
Can Vegeta destroy Mjölnir?
What makes Mjölnir so powerful is what is inside of Mjölnir.
The God Tempest, also known as the Mother of Thunder, is a galaxy-sized cosmic storm that was sealed within the Uru that would become Mjolnir.
Not even the strongest gods could tame the storm, including Thor's father , Odin. Odin had to seal it with Mjölnir.
Even then, Thor has been one of the few shown actually capable of controlling the god tempest.
Simply, if Vegeta ever manages to destroy Mjölnir, it would release a storm so destructive it will kill him, which is not the best winning strategy.
Final Verdict:
Thor:
+Stronger & More durable
+Faster
+Experience
+Stamina
+Gear
+Abilities
+Counters
>= Skill
>= Intellect
Vegeta:
= Skill
= Intellect
Vegeta is a valiant warrior, but a simple glance at the statistics can tell you that he is simply outclassed here against Thor the Thunderer.
The prince is just out of his depth here. Thor is superior in everywhere that matters, and Vegeta does not really have any comeback potential that can change the tide.
The god of thunder's incredible might, unimaginable speed, and godly abilities were just too much for the Prince of all saiyans.
Winner : Thor Odinson
Final Comments:
So that was the special!
I hope you've enjoyed it, it has been 6 months in the making and I have had a lot of fun with it. Comparing this with my end of year blog last year has really shown how my work has evolved and changed.
After all the cosmic discussion involving universe levels of destruction, let's bring it a little closer to home.
" My Promise "
Spiderman VS Tommyinit ( MCU VS Dsmp )
That being said, I'll see you all in….about a week's time.
Thank you all for your time.
I hope you've enjoyed your stay.
-Nate
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