Dream VS The Joker ( MCYT/Dream SMP VS Detective Comics )

- Chaotic Evil Psychopathic Intelligent Villians most well known for their green and purple colour schemes and their signature smile. 

- Arch enemy being heroes infused with trauma who has similar origins to the villian with only a small change to differentiate them. ( Batman and Joker both do what they do because their family was killed by criminals , but the Joker fell into insanity while Bruce went to crime fighting.. Both Dream and Tommyinit fight for control over what they desire, just Tommyinit learnt that people are more valuable objects while Dream sacrificed people for objects. )

- Both primarily go after the country which took everything away from them ( Gotham and Manburg ) with the help of their sidekicks ( Sapnap and Harley Quinn ) who later would betray them and switch sides when Dream/Joker didn't care. 

- While being capable of phsyical conflict , they much prefer to use manipulation to fight their enemies. 

- Both have tortured , crippled , scared and even killed their enemies just for the fun of it. Both have been jailed , scarred, tortured and killed yet don't stay down.

Some say that they are insane. 

That they are crazy. 

I would argue....they're more real....

Than the heroes themselves....

The Speedrunner VS The clown Prince of crime

Dream VS The Joker 

Welcome to my Halloween special , it's the first Halloween special I've done , considering I procrastinated so hard last year that it didn't exist. 

I'm deciding to release it a few days early , just to celebrate the 9 year anniversary of Technoblade's youtube channel. 

With revisions to the scaling of power for Minecraft characters and research into the logistics of Minecraft , I'm here to see which one of these 2 comes out on top. 

Seeing that the Dream face reveal and Dream team meet up happened earlier this month, and “The batman” came out earlier this year, I thought this matchup would be fitting.

Ground rules:

No outside assistance . So no Sapnap , Harley Quinn , or anyone from the Dream SMP or DC. 

Composite Gear. Dream will be given gear from both his manhunt series and in the canon of the SMP (Netherite Armour and gear in addition to other equipment ) while Joker will be given any gear he uses. ( Crowbars , Joker toxin , etc. )

No preparation time will be given. Neither will be given any additional time to study their opponent or collect additional gear to use. 

They will both also be in character. If it isn’t in character for one of them to kill, it will be accounted for.

Now to get started. 

Strength :

For the Joker , it is actually pretty simple.

He is around Batman’s level. Undoubtedly weaker, but close enough to compare. Luckily for the mid-year II Project, we calculated Bruce’s strength to be at city block level, surviving 58 tons of TNT. 

For Dream, he scales to Technoblade, in both occasions, should scale to the destruction of Manburg, which should range from small town to country level explosion. Wilbur reportedly used 11.5 stacks (of 64) of TNT for the first destruction of Manburg on 16th November 2020. Using the density of TNT and the size of one block of TNT. This will put the first Manburg explosion at 1214.4 tons of TNT. 

Seeing as this only blew up a small portion of Manburg, Technoblade barely took any damage , the damage was repaired and the results of the Doomsday war was far FAR more destructive, it's more than likely that Technoblade scales above the original Manburg explosion. 

So comparing the explosion in Manberg against the explosion in Gotham, Dream would be almost 21 times more powerful than the Joker. Especially noting that this is an underestimation for Dream and an overestimation for the Joker ( Batman is physically stronger than Joker in every way) , the strength gap is quite big. 

Well what about speed? 

Speed :

Despite a minecraft character’s absurd power and strength, they are surprisingly slow. At fastest, I can scale them to the speed of lightning, which the leader of lightning (The actual lightning striking the ground ) travels at 98,000 meters per second or Mach 269.7 times. Not bad, around 0.0333% the speed of light.

However, the Joker directly scales to Batman who can dodge light speed and light based attacks. The Joker has reaffirmed this, dodging light himself.

This would put the speed gap at over 3000 times advantage in terms of reaction speed. Even applying the speed 2 potion effect, the gap closes to around 2000 times.

Interestingly, Dream has the travel speed advantage, with flight with trident, speed, depth strider , ender pearls , etc.

So whilst Dream has a big strength advantage, the Joker has an enormous speed advantage. So how can Dream counter this. Well, he is one of the most skilled players in minecraft history leading us to…….

Skill :

The Joker is often underselled when it comes to skill. He has regularly kept up with every member of the Bat-family, including killers like The Red Hood. He has brawled with Batman and at his absolute best, has outskilled Nightwing ( The first son of Batman who has shown on numerous occasions to be Bruce’s equal ). 

However , those seem to be more exceptions rather than the rule. Joker has had no martial arts knowledge and it is made clear in numerous continuities that Batman can kill the Joker easily if he wanted to.

Meanwhile, Dream has consistently proven relative to top tier players like Technoblade, Fruitberries, Illumina and others. 

Experience :

Well experience and age is a bit iffy for the Dream SMP. There are many different ways to scale their age, but the most agreed upon way is to use their real life age. Of course, this does put some errors in the lore, especially within the Philza family with people like Philza being only 11 years old at the time of Wilbur’s birth? And Fundy being only 2 years old in technical canon despite being 23 years old in real life. Fundy has also stated to be 14-20+ years old in canon, so it is all up to interpretation.

Regardless, Dream is 23 years old in real life as of 28th October 2022. Minecraft was created 11 years ago and his youtube account was created in 2014.  Making his working experience from 8-11 years. 

The Joker should be relative to the age and experience of Batman , at least in most depictions. That would make the Joker 43 years old, with 23 years of experience or so.

The Joker should be older by 20 years and have been working for more than 12 years.

Intellect :

This category is clear cut. Dream is intelligent , but Joker is a genius in the comic book world. The Joker has consistently outsmarted Batman, who is a master of….practically everything.

Even looking at IQ, the highest IQ in the world is 198.

Meanwhile, the Joker has an IQ of 350. 

The Joker should have this category in the bag. 

Stamina :

The Joker is notorious for his survivability and his endurance , being able to keep up with someone as dangerous and tenacious as the Dark Knight. Being fair and assuming the caped crusader and the clown have around the same level of stamina, Batman is able to stay fighting for over 80 hours. 

Impressive, but Dream is a minecraft character. Minecraft characters don’t need to sleep, giving them technically infinite stamina, giving Dream a massive advantage against the Joker.

80 hours is impressive, but being able to battle forever without any restrictions is incomparable to that. 

Gear , Versatility and haxs :

Whilst Joker has the speed edge and possibly higher raw intelligence, Dream is stronger and more skilled.

And that makes sense. Dream is a relatively physical fighter whilst Joker relies more on his gear and trickery. So if there is a category for the Joker to clutch the victory on, it is this one , so how does he fair?

Dream for the most part has better gear. His swords, axes, crossbows, etcetera should all scale to his attack potency and durability. The Joker’s physical gear mostly consist of crowbars, knives , guns and of all sorts and while useful , is lackluster compared to Dream’s small town level gear. Even Joker’s more versatile and powerful gear , like the acids , explosives or flamethrowers are nothing compared to Dream’s variety of potions. I suppose the Joker has nukes, but that’s more likely to kill him rather than kill Dream, especially since Dream not only has defence against standard brute force but also has specific resistance to explosions and fire.

Potions of poisons, harming, slowness, blindness, and so on. Teleportation, explosives on his own , not even mentioning the manhunt gear. 

And while it would be of no use to him in this fight, the revival book can bring people back from the dead and allow him to do a small form of telepathy. 

He has thorns on his armour, making the Joker take damage whenever he hits him. Scaling to Technoblade, thorns was able to take down building levels Tommyinit with just his thorns alone. He has lava and water buckets, and numerous long range weapons. His firework crossbow scales to Technoblade who one shot several people on the same level , at least comparable in terms of statistics wise, as Dream and Technoblade. 

Strength potions and speed potions increase Dream’s stats, and worst comes to worst, Dream has gapples and god apples. These things are capable of healing someone back to full heal ,and the god apple gives more durability through resistance and health, fire immunity and regeneration.

Enter pearls also give Dream a method of escape, allowing him to get away and recoup, and can likewise allow him to close the range gap.

Dream’s gear overall still is more powerful than anything the Joker has in store, be it one trick up his sleeve.

Counters :

The Joker toxin, and other versions of it such as the Joker toxin, is the most potent debuff in this fight, and it has the raw power to win this fight single-handedly without any assistance. It bypasses durability and can , depending on the version, make the person laugh so hard they suffocate or make them insane through the laughter.

The Joker has had several decades of exposure to the Joker Toxin amongst many other gases and poisons, and thus should have plenty of immunity against potion effects like poison, weakness and harming. His insane mind should also protect him from telepathy.

He can very easily win this fight with the toxin, especially since it has affected people like Superman and Wonder woman before. This is consistent throughout the ages, timelines and even alternative versions, notably the Batman who laughs and Injustice Superman.

Dream , or at least C!Dream , tends to play games first before finishing his target off. See Dream and Awesamdude before Awesamdude’s death, see Dream , Tubbo_ and Tommyinit before Dream gets imprisoned, etc. This would give plenty of time for the Joker toxin to have its effect on green boi.

The main problem is, that’s most of what the Joker has going for him. He’s slightly faster and slightly smarter,potentially more experienced and he has his joker toxin. Dream has everything else. If Dream can counter the Joker toxin, it’s all done for.

So what can Dream do to counter this? First of all, does a minecraft character need to breathe? If Dream doesn’t need to breath, or just straight up doesn’t breathe at all, that’s a pretty good defence against the toxin.

Well….it depends on what you buy. There are several points that go for and against a minecraft character’s breathing.

Copper does not oxide in the nether or end, implying that there is no air in the nether and end and that the Minecraft character can breathe without air. But opposingly, the minecraft character can suffocate in water and sand. At best, Dream does not need to breathe but still does. Seeing as Superman and Wonder Woman too don’t need to breathe yet have been affected by the toxin, not breathing is a questionable method of countering. 

Besides , Dream has a better counter altogether.

Milk.

.....

Look, I can explain. 

Milk in the minecraft universe's most important function is the ability to remove potion effects. From diseases to natural to magical, milk has the ability to counteract and cleanse all effects, whether positive or negative. Batman has made an antidote to the laughing gas before, and seeing the milk gets rid of all effects, there is nothing suggesting that milk could not cleanse the effects of the joker toxin. 

Final Verdict :

Dream : 

+Strength & Durability

+Skill

+Stamina

+More versatile

+Better gear

+Better haxes

+Battlefield control

+Counters

Joker :

+Speed

+Experience 

+Intellect

+Joker toxin but…..

-Dream can counter it with his gear. 

So who wins? Well, my money is on Dream. Yes, the Joker is likely faster and more experienced than Dream. He might be more intelligent , his advantages are quite big and the Joker Toxin if Dream doesn’t act accordingly could be a game changer. 

But that reaction speed gap can be countered by Dream’s superior skill, battlefield control and gear. His thorns will make it difficult for Joker to consistently overwhelm him, his explosives and ender pearls will give him battlefield control, allowing him to switch between melee combat and long range combat however he wishes. His water bucket and lava bucket at minimum can hinder Joker’s speed and Dream still has the power advantage if all else fails.

Dream has the statistics. Dream has the counters. Dream has everything he needs to pull off a victory, especially when he has so many ways to win. One shot with firework launchers, 1 shot with TNT, one shot with his weapons.

Joker’s own way to win is to hope that Dream is taken down by the toxin, Dream gets cocky or runs away ( somehow despite Dream’s battlefield control and travel speed. ) and find or think of an effective strategy to win.

And the Joker himself is often not serious despite his intellect.

When your best strategy to win is to either hope you win or run away until you win, then I think the victor is pretty clear cut. Intellect can only counter so much, especially when Dream is smart in his own right. 

Joker is often undersold , and at his best he can still win, but as bonkers as the Joker is, He is out of his league here.

Winner: Dream ( MCYT/Dream SMP )

Well there we go. Happy halloween everyone, that’s the blog. I’m quite happy to touch on MCYT again. It’s quite fun to discuss 2 characters I like to an extreme degree. While I do love Technoblade VS Deadpool , I have definitely missed out on some parts and made revitalisation to some others. 

Though after the Christmas special, I think I might take a short break for MCYT Versus. I’ve done quite a lot of them and I would like to use a lot of other series that I like, e.g. Dragon Ball, Steven Universe, Invincible, a few other anime , shows, books and games. 

Now….I think it’s time for the end of year project, and it’s going to be Super .

See you then. Bye !